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More on the Gaza blockade

* Corruption of the blockade; Israeli surpluses tend to get sold. This picture also hints at what's going on:

Note the arbitrariness (cinnamon, but not coriander), the unconnection to "preventing terror" (donkeys?) the illogic (no animals, but animal feed), the dependency (clothes, but not fabric to make clothes with), the censorship (no newspapers), the perversity (frozen meat and fruit into a land of intermittent electricity supply -- but not dried fruit!)
Or to quote a members-only post:

That's not a list designed to prevent terrorism; that's a list designed
to stop infrastructure developing and prevent the growth of a healthy
economy - in other words, a recipe for breeding terrorism in the future.

Related to this is that Palestine is a captive market, literally, for
Israeli goods. As I posted in the other thread, Richard ben Cramer's HOW
ISRAEL LOST is excellent on this. One particularly intriguing fact;
retired Israeli generals very frequently go on to sit on the boards of
companies who do much of their business selling to the Palestinian
market.


* Israeli criticism of the blockade. Eyewitness accounts of IDF violence, and rebuttals of the IDF story. The attack jammed cell phones BTW, and the IDF has confiscated phones and laptops of the flotilla members. So we can assume they don't want independent evidence getting out.
* BBC FAQ on it all
* Israel's lesson? It announces it will use more force against subsequent ships.

* Funny neighbor analogy a couple posts down.

Equal citizenship or independence. That's what the Palestinians deserve, plain and simple.

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( 6 comments — Leave a comment )
jordan179
Jun. 4th, 2010 06:07 pm (UTC)
Israel's lesson? It announces it will use more force against subsequent ships.

Glad to hear that Israel remains uncowed.

Equal citizenship or independence. That's what the Palestinians deserve, plain and simple.

The Gaza was granted independence. It promptly went to war against Israel.

mindstalk
Jun. 4th, 2010 07:17 pm (UTC)
That's bullshit lies, and you're smart enough to know better. Gaza was never given independent control of its borders and airspace; Israel simply tried pulling out of the ghetto and letting it fester in containment.

But then, you're capable of writing "but then the Turks are beasts, as has been plain since 1915, and deserve little sympathy at the best of times", so your bigotry is plain. Not to mention your repeated urgings of Israel to expel all the Palestinians.
jordan179
Jun. 4th, 2010 08:09 pm (UTC)
Killing Palestinians HORRIBLE, Killing Armenians (*yawn*)?
That's bullshit lies, and you're smart enough to know better. Gaza was never given independent control of its borders and airspace; Israel simply tried pulling out of the ghetto and letting it fester in containment.

That's honest truth, and you're smart enough to know better, so you're basically admitting yourself an anti-Semitic liar. Gaza was turned over to the Palestinians lock, stock, and barrel. The Israelis did not remain in occupation of any part of that territory, staying on their OWN side of the border to prevent raids into Israeli territory, as was their right and is the right of any sovereign Power.

The Palestinians promptly wrecked their own farms, elevated Hamas to rulership over the area, and then raided and bombarded Israel until the Israelis launched a punitive attack and besieged the Gaza. This is all a matter of recent occurrence and public record; you can only claim ignorance of this if you are seriously stupid or inattentive to world affairs.

But then, you're capable of writing "but then the Turks are beasts, as has been plain since 1915, and deserve little sympathy at the best of times", so your bigotry is plain.

Bigotry against whom?

In fact I do not believe that "the Turks are beasts," I was merely pointing out the issue which everyone has ignored in their willingness to believe in Turkish humanitarianism ...

... namely, that not a century ago they murdered a MILLION innocent civilians, and have not merely never apologized for it, but treated it as an offensive diplomatic action to even mention it.

You have such deep sympathy for the Palestinians, I compliment you for such caring, which is clearly not fuelled by any anti-Semitism. Yet oddly enough, you seem to have absolutely NO sympathy for the Armenians, who were murdered. Or the Kurds, who are being murdered right now, by those very same wonderful humanitarian Turks.

Why the discrepancy?
mindstalk
Jun. 4th, 2010 08:40 pm (UTC)
Re: Killing Palestinians HORRIBLE, Killing Armenians (*yawn*)?
Ah yes, calling the Jew anti-Semitic, typical class for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement

Israel will continue to control Gaza's coastline and airspace and reserves the right to undertake military operations when necessary. (Art 3.1). Egypt will control Gaza's Egyptian border. Israel will continue to provide Gaza with water, communication, electricity, and sewage networks (Art 8); existing customs arrangements with Israel — under which imports from Israel to Gaza are not taxed, exports from Gaza to Israel are taxed, and Israel collects customs duties on foreign products entering Gaza—will remain in force and the Israeli currency will continue to be used (Art 10).

You said Gaza was granted independence. That's not independence. Independent nations control their coasts and airspace. How are you ignorant of this?

Nice attempt to weasel out of your clear statement against our Turkish allies.

There is no discrepancy: I fully condemn Turkey's denial of the Armenian genocide and of Kurdish rights (though Erdogan seems to have gotten better on that front) and am inclined to support Kurdish independence. But this is irrelevant to the current situation.

When doing something wrong, "look, there's wrongness over there! don't look at me!" is not a valid defense.
jordan179
Jun. 7th, 2010 06:48 am (UTC)
Re: Killing Palestinians HORRIBLE, Killing Armenians (*yawn*)?
Independent nations control their coasts and airspace. How are you ignorant of this?

Independent nations control their coasts and airspace if they live at peace with other nations. They also control their coasts and airspace if they go to war only with weaker nations. Independent nations who go to war with stronger nations soon lose control of said coasts and airspace. How are you ignorant of this?
mindstalk
Jun. 7th, 2010 06:59 pm (UTC)
Re: Killing Palestinians HORRIBLE, Killing Armenians (*yawn*)?
Hey, know what I realized? People who throw around accusations of anti-Semitism for criticising Israel, especially people who call Jews anti-Semitic again right after having been called on it, forfeit the usual consideration or expectation of civil discourse.

For repeatedly stooping to hateful insults, you are banned from this journal.
( 6 comments — Leave a comment )

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